SUMMARY
On this episode of Create for Change, we’re joined by Max Levy, a digital and political strategist with over a decade of experience in the nonprofit, government, and campaign space.
Max has played key roles in digital fundraising for the Stacey Abrams campaign and public affairs at Democracy Forward. He continues his impact work today as an independent consultant helping changemakers break through online.
Max walks us through his career journey, discusses what makes a winning digital strategy, and talks about the lessons he’s learned from his experience about what works and what doesn’t in an ever-changing digital landscape.
HIGHLIGHTS
EXPERIMENTATION ONLINE: Max talks about the importance of experimenting, and shares some lessons learned about stunt marketing through his work facilitating the viral livestream of President Trump’s name being taken down from the Kennedy Center. To Max, experimenting means knowing when an idea warrants high production and investment, and when it requires speed over presentation. Not every situation calls for the most perfect piece of content, but it does have to be intentional and build community among your target audience.
DIGITAL FUNDRAISING: Max addresses a common misconception that folks get wrong about digital fundraising: you aren’t going to raise the majority of your money on social media. This makes it crucial to create consistent places and structures that let patrons contribute to your cause, understand your theory of change, and how their donations make a genuine impact. Max is still a big proponent of email outreach, and emphasizes the importance of a trustworthy brand presence that doesn’t cause audiences to tune you out in the long term.
ADVICE FOR 2026 MIDTERMS: Max provides some insight into tactics that could be useful to digital communicators going into the upcoming midterm elections. Investing in organic social, good quality technical equipment, and paid clipping are some tried-and-true strategies that could get messages that folks want to listen to, reaching them.
TRANSCRIPT
Max Levy 0:00
Trump’s takeover of the Kennedy Center. There was an ongoing court fight about whether Trump’s name could be added. And there was very quickly a judge’s decision that the name had to come down. And all of a sudden we had a bunch of people just like organically saying online, I have to see this happen. I would pay to watch this happen. So I said, hey, what if we found somewhere to just put up a camera and have it on so that we can just watch them take the name down? We had like over a hundred thousand people tune in to this live stream.
Dillon St. Bernard 0:28
Hey y’all, I am Dillon St. Bernard and welcome back to Create for Change. We are gathering communicators, storytellers, cultural strategists to really think about storytelling and activism. Today we’re joined by Max Levy. Max is a communications and digital strategist with over a decade of experience in nonprofits, government, and political clients. Stacey Abrams campaign, Public Affairs at Democracy Forward, focused now on independent consulting. Hey Max, how’s it going?
Max Levy 0:54
It’s good. So good to be here. How are you doing?
Dillon St. Bernard 0:56
Doing alright, doing alright. So just tell me, we always start with like, who are you? How did you get there? And everybody’s like, that seems like a big question, but I’m gonna ask it anyways. Who are you? How’d you get here?
Max Levy 1:05
Let me add to the, that is a big question list. Long story short. I grew up in the South, grew up in Atlanta, and I feel like very early on knew that I was gonna do something, if not politics, something public service related, helping people related. I think a lot about my grandfather, who was very much one of my role models growing up. He was a rabbi who moved, he was from the north from Philly, but moved his family to Montgomery, Alabama in the 60s to lead a congregation there, in large part to do civil rights work in the South as a member of clergy in the South, raised his family in the South. That’s where the rest of my family’s from. And so, really, just growing up in his legacy, it was always just a question of how we could do good things in the world. Volunteered on my first political campaign in high school with a woman who was running for state legislature at the time, got to see like real crunchy, dirty local politics, and just really uh fell in love with it from the jump and stayed involved in college and since then have just been jumping around a bunch of different roles that I’m sure we’ll get into, but really just trying to find different ways to reach new people, try new things, and hopefully push some good things in the world.
Dillon St. Bernard 2:30
Yeah, so tell us a bit more around that, not to like list your resume, but like who have you worked for and what have you done with them?
Max Levy 2:36
Lots of people. I have only ever stayed at a full-time job for two years at the longest, which I feel like is everybody in this world of just dabbling between a bunch of stuff. My first full-time political gig was as an organizer in 2016 in Pennsylvania for the Clinton campaign for the general. Um was a student campus organizer. I took that semester off from college to do that, which was a time. Um, it was a fun time until it wasn’t to be in Pennsylvania.
Dillon St. Bernard 3:06
That’s how politics. That’s how it goes.
Max Levy 3:09
You will you’ll notice a trend in these folks. But started off there, I’m really so grateful for that organizing experience, especially that campus organizing experience, because it was something that wasn’t in your traditional campaign structure. And so even though we were a part of a coordinated campaign that had really rigorous reporting and data and all of that, we were still figuring out, okay, we can’t canvas traditionally because we’ve got dorms to go to. How do we figure out how to do that and still report back? And like it’s going to be paper forms instead of an app and all of that fun stuff. But lots of trying new things, trying different things there. After that, I really jumped head first less on the doors and more on the phones and over the internet in digital world, starting out with some firms. Then the first bigger campaign job, I jumped into digital fundraising with the Warren campaign during Elizabeth Warren’s primary. Big structural change. You know? Dream Big, Fight Hard, all that fun stuff. Then Biden for that general, also doing email fundraising, um, which we won a presidential campaign from all of our basements, because that was deep in COVID at that point, which was wild. Um to sprint through things from here, because this is like way too much resume. Um, was at EPA for a minute, then led Stacey Abrams digital fundraising in 2022. So I got to go home to Atlanta, which was amazing, and do like a bunch of different cross-platform stuff. Then I was at Democracy Forward, which is a legal nonprofit going much broader than fundraising and doing a lot of creator work, organic social, and then just general comms messaging world things. And then since then, the last couple years have been out on my own as an independent consultant and getting to just dabble in a bunch of stuff, which in case that laundry list resume was not clear. I like to bounce around and like to do a lot of different things at the same time. And so that’s been a whole new adventure.
Dillon St. Bernard 5:08
Yeah. And I think something that you have written quite a bit about just on your Substack and other places is this experimentation piece. I think as somebody who likes, which I I love, and I’ve also gotten like, you don’t really stay in for much long. And I’m like, I like to go where the energy is and create new things. So I’m curious around how you think about building new things. So I do think we recently had a conversation with Alex Edgar, and we really talked about this, you know, we have to kind of look at other places for experimentation from away from political and nonprofit work. So I’m curious how you think about, like, okay, I want to try that thing. And what’s your approach to experimentation?
Max Levy 5:45
Yeah, I think it all comes from a premise that has really just proven itself time and time again over the last few years, especially, that what got us here isn’t gonna be what gets us out of here, where things at the national level, at the local level in a lot of places just like aren’t great. Progressives aren’t winning, campaigns, orgs aren’t achieving the change and achieving the results that we want to see in the world. So it’s just a question of okay, if what hasn’t worked isn’t what we need to do, what else is there in the world really across the board? I look a lot either backwards, looking at like past movements, past history, but then also a lot of brand marketing world where they’re so often so far ahead of the game. They’re have such a bottom line profit incentive to do things, often have dollars to do things in bigger ways. There’s obviously not always the most experimental, even if you’re especially if you’re in like corporate brand world, but looking and seeing, okay, what are those edge case things that is a crazy thing they’re doing on social for Skittles or for like there’s a invoicing accounting company that like loves to do social stunts and finding those little things that are doing cool, cool, fun, different things, and then being able to say, okay, how could I see this for a candidate, or how could I see this for a nonprofit with all of the budget and legal and whatever constraints, but being able to play in that kind of in-between world, I think, is really fun.
Dillon St. Bernard 7:18
So tell me about some of the stunts. I read some of your stuff recently. So, like, what is the stunt in the last like six months that you’re like, ooh, that was kind of fun, and we got something out of it?
Max Levy 7:26
Yeah, I think my favorite recently was with the Kennedy Center. I’d been talking with some organizers who were like day in, day out organizing in and around the Kennedy Center to protect the arts workers there and to protect the arts in general, with the Kennedy Center and Trump’s takeover of the Kennedy Center really being so aggressive and censoring of art and artists, and trying to find ways that we could elevate that conversation and really bring some national attention to it. Trump had obviously taken over, he had put his name up above it, which was just like egregious, um, and was like a ridiculous thing that people talked about, but then kind of moved on. Then there was an ongoing court fight about whether Trump’s name could be added to like all of the marketing and branding. And there was very quickly a judge’s decision that the name had to come down off of it. And all of a sudden we had a bunch of people just like organically saying online, I have to see this happen. I would pay to watch this happen. This is like is gonna be so fun. And something that I’d seen other brands or just people in the world do was these always-on live streams where it’s like a panda cam or your dog cares live stream cam and all of that fun stuff.
Dillon St. Bernard 8:47
It was like an animal pregnant. I remember like not, like- less stunt, but more of like you watch it together. Right.
Max Levy 8:52
It was this like a community-building, like online moment that I’d been trying to find the right place to do, and people were literally asking for it for the Kennedy Center. So I said, hey, what if we found somewhere to just put up a camera and have it on so that if and when we’ve got construction workers going, we can just watch them take the name down. And people flocked to it. It was this like super fun community-building moment where literally it was a computer with a webcam on it that thankfully somebody at the Watergate volunteered to let us put that camera on their balcony. It was just pointing way off in the distance at the Kennedy Center where you could kind of see the facade with the names on it. And people were jumping into the chat, they were excited. We had some people who were like moderating the chat, and that was super fun. Obviously, then there was like the drama with the tarp and all of that nonsense. So we didn’t actually see the name come off because Trump was too embarrassed by it by that point, so had this like crazy situation set up. But we had like over a hundred thousand people tune in to this live stream over the course of a few days, and it was just low stakes, but this like high effort on the ground thing that we were able to build a real community for people who couldn’t be there in person but could just be in and around it in a really fun way.
Dillon St. Bernard 10:16
And it seems like, you know, I think there’s a strategy to it, but in terms of the actual technical piece, it doesn’t seem overly complicated either. So can you tell me a bit more around like I do think you know, campaigns and nonprofits think about like, okay, stunt is huge, budget, we need a lot, but some but you’re kind of you’re saying that it was a computer with a webcam on it. So just tell me about like the logistics and like how you think about like pitching that, which doesn’t feel like two grand unless I’m like missing something.
Max Levy 10:42
No, you are correct. That that is always the other piece of the equation that obviously ideally people invest in the things, they spend the money, invest in the good content, all of that. But especially campaigns, certainly nonprofits are gonna need to get scrappy and are gonna need to figure out how to do things. And if you don’t have the dollars, it was about the time and the person power and the in-person organizing that was able to jump over that hurdle where eventually, yes, you there was a bunch of news cameras that had their like very expensive, very fancy news cameras that were set up right in front of it. But we had a guy who had an extra computer uh who happened to have a webcam, and then knew somebody who knew somebody who knew somebody with a vantage point that we could put it at rather than having to construct some structure to get it all perfect, and then just were able to get the right people in the right places to set it up and go. And we’re lucky enough that I this obviously was an unpaid thing for me. This was a passion project and just something fun. I think you’re right that there’s a lot of people who want to let the perfect be the enemy of the good, where we could have spent a bunch more money on a really expensive camera to get a perfect shot, but we knew that it was more important to get out fast. And so truly just having like you could see that the Kennedy Center existed on this feed was enough, and we had faith that that would be enough, and so we just jumped in. I think the other thing that is really important, that combination of in person and online, where so many people want to say, we need to make a moment, but then want to stay at their computers. We needed people on the ground, in addition to then the digital tactics and structure and things, and that to create moments like these, sometimes you just need in-person community building that then can get multiplied out much wider.
Dillon St. Bernard 12:49
Yeah. And then I want to go a little bit to digital fundraising. So I know it’s not all of your work and you kind of are expanded past that, but I do think a lot of campaigns, a lot of, of course, nonprofits are always thinking about digital fundraising and how to convert, you know, the online audience. Like much of the conversation I have is that we want to fundraise off of social. How do you think about digital fundraising when candidates or even maybe some nonprofits or political orgs are coming to you? What where do you start with that?
Max Levy 13:16
Fundraising is obviously so, so important. And doing it well and sustainably, I think, is one of the questions that the Democratic Party, the progressive movement is really facing right now of how do we do this in ways that aren’t taking advantage of people, that aren’t scaring people into giving. I think when I’m thinking structurally about how I set up digital fundraising strategy and tactics, I think the first thing to tell people is for better or for worse, social isn’t where you’re gonna be raising the majority of your money. So sorry. I am here to uh set you and every other social media manager free. But it just there’s some moments where you can raise a ton and you should take advantage of those moments on social. You should have the fun, donate this vanity dollar amount for some significant thing. But it’s the pipeline and the structure that you build around all of that and the day-to-day that’s gonna build so much more of what you’re actually bringing in. I am an email truther still. People have said that email is over for the last 30 years, and they’ve been wrong every time. Um, it is crazy how much of grassroots fundraising is still coming in through asking over email. We can talk about the texting of it all later. That is getting insane. It’s a bubble that is going to pop, but it is another place that is raising dollars, and I think you can do it better or well over there as well. But I think it’s all about setting up consistent places where you can be asking people to buy into your cause, to understand why and how and what you are doing, and then building that relationship over time so that they understand your theory of change and understand how a $5 donation, how a $10 donation actually can make a difference on your work and then on actual people in the actual world. And that if you do that well and thoughtfully and consistently, the dollars will come.
Dillon St. Bernard 15:27
Yeah. And I’m curious, like, what do you think folks are getting wrong about that? Because I’m seeing, of course, I now my email has been sold and my phone number has been sold, and I’m getting everything. There’s one there’s one text message that I got yesterday that I was like, I really wanted to, and I may I may even know the digital folks behind it, but I want to be like, y’all, what are we doing? This is this you’re scared, you’re scaring people. So I’m curious on like, yeah, what do you think campaigns orgs are getting wrong about fundraising right now?
Max Levy 15:55
I mean, it’s exactly that with those ridiculous, especially the texts, the ridiculous tactics, the ridiculous social security is over. I’ve seen you your package was delivered, just kidding. And like your order number 1705, and then it’s we want you to donate $17.05, or airplane flight notification that’s just kidding, it’s Donald Trump coming to your city, or he’s flying to a swing state. That if you’re trying to trick people into opening an email, yes, you’ll get some dollars, but you should be having people open an email because they want to open your email and setting people up, setting yourself up for success instead of like a gotcha where you’re gonna end up in spam and it’s gonna be an issue. I think the other important thing to think about is with especially with these texts, is that there is a cost to the whole and to us as a movement when we are so desperately trying to figure out how to break through online right now. We are so desperate to get anybody to pay attention to our message, to listen to what we’re trying to say that if you’re part of getting people to tune out, that is just such a huge long-term problem, both for the like community, but then also for you as an org where eventually people are going to tune you out and not just your dollars, but when you want them to actually understand something, they’ve already stopped listening and it’s too late.
Dillon St. Bernard 17:26
Yeah. And as we end, like what are do you have any other strategies and tactics that you want digital communicators to know as we go into the ‘26 election?
Max Levy 17:36
Definitely investing in social and content and organic social, I think is incredibly important. And not just investing in your paid ads around social, not just investing in a really good person to run your socials, which is obviously important, but investing in the tools and your mics and investing in your like creating those moments and creating them well, I think is one thing. We should absolutely be talking about paid clipping and the paid distribution of clipping world that is this whole other like secret world of getting a billion views on stuff that looks organic in really exciting ways. But I really think it is just thinking about yes, there’s a way to get your message in front of people with ads and ad dollars, but what if you were getting your message in the thing that the ad was interrupting? Is just the question that I’m constantly trying to think about and that I think we should all be really laser focused on.
Dillon St. Bernard 18:33
Thanks so much for joining us, Max.
Max Levy 18:35
Thank you. This has been great.